BBC World: Politics Show, 28 January 2007

Date: 2015-10-07; view: 611.

Now, a BBC Worlds' News Special: Jon Sopel of the Politics Show interviews British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Jon Sopel, the BBC presenter: Prime Minister, so here we are in Davos, the big issues under discussion: climate change, Africa, debt, world trade. Is it frustrating that in your last few months in office there's only so much you're going to be able to do?

Tony Blair, British Prime Minister: Actually, what's quite interesting is that the next few months will probably be pretty important for all of those issues. I mean the World Trade deal gets done or not, …erm…, in the next few months. Spring time is probably the key to that – if we can't get agreement then we probably won't get agreement at all. Climate change is really to do with the G8 and whether we can get an agreement there.

Africa of course, I mean people will be dealing with Africa long after I've gone on and in the decades to come, but no, I think what's interesting actually is the degree to which, the type of agenda that we have articulated at international level is really the type of agenda that is now more or less dominating international discussion, and also, I think even more interesting in a way, the solutions that we're putting forward on climate change, on world trade, on Africa are the solutions most people are gravitating towards; so I think, you know, for our country, it's …erm…, you know, we should take a certain amount of pride and enthusiasm from that.

John Sopel: And if you were to hazard a guess, do you think there will be deal on World Trade? Do you think there will be any substantive progress on climate change?

Tony Blair: I think it's more likely than not that you will get a deal on World Trade now. I mean, this is of vital importance for the poorest countries, cos this is their real way of getting themselves out of poverty. The benefits for African countries of a good deal on trade, is more than any of the aid that we can put in to Africa. For our own country and other similar countries, it's going to be a huge boost to services and industry, trade right round the world.

Now just literally within the past few days, I've talked about this with President Bush, with Chancellor Merkel, with the President of Brazil yesterday and President of South Africa, and I think there's a, there's a chance of getting this done and I know world trade seems to people a kind of slightly techie issue, and not many people are interested in it, but it's the practical importance of it is enormous for countries like ours, which are a trading nation.

Jon Sopel: So it could still happen while you're in office.

Tony Blair:Well, yeah, because I mean it's gotta happen in the next few months.

Jon Sopel: Okay. You talk about how much that there is still to do on so many issues and I listened to your speech carefully. I suppose some would say, well why are you going?

Tony Blair: [laughs] Well. You know, I decided before the last election that I wasn't going to fight a fourth election and then at some point, you know, it, it comes to an end. Now …erm...

Jon Sopel:You said absolutely adamantly you were going to serve a full term!

Tony Blair: Yeah but, you know, I think most people would accept that at least, you know, there's got to be some process of transition, if you're saying, cos the whole context in which I was saying that was...

Jon Sopel: [interjection] We're not yet two years in, why did you decide to go so soon?

Tony Blair: Well I've said out all that last year. I mean it's not worth going back over. I mean I think the most important thing is to make sure that for the time that remains as it were, you know, we've got a strong and energetic agenda that we're pushing forward and as you rightly have just implied internationally, the agenda is there.

But the interesting thing is domestically, it is as well. I mean you've got major health service reform that's going on. You've reorganisation of the Home Office, big pensions legislation, the energy white paper coming out, welfare reform. I mean the one thing you can't say is it's not, you know, that the government is not driving forward. I think in many ways actually, the last eighteen months has been our most radical, most bold on the domestic agenda.

Now it's also been the most difficult incidentally, but I think in time to come, for setting ourselves up as a political party for the next election, but also as a platform of change for the country it's in many ways been the most productive period of internal domestic reform.

Jon Sopel: I'll return to those domestic issues in a moment. Just staying with the whole thing of Africa. I mean, you've talked about the need for good governance, anti- corruption, as being vital in the fight against poverty is almost central to all of that.

Tony Blair: Yeah, it is, absolutely and, you know, there are good signs. I mean we have the President of Liberia here; that's a war torn country, totally corrupted by successive Presidents, now with the first woman President in Africa, leading it.

Next door of course is Sierra Leone, which we helped stabilise as a country, about to have another set of democratic elections. You know you've got to a process of change that was really quite exciting.

You've got 1.6 million people getting HIV/AIDS treatment that weren't getting it before. Millions of kids getting into primary school education, but then you've still got problems like Sudan.

Jon Sopel: So, in the context of that, what sort of example did it set when you're sort of extolling all these things, but you halt a serious fraud office enquiry in to alleged arms sales in Saudi Arabia?

Tony Blair: We can go in to that in detail if you want, but basically that was a completely different situation because what we were saying was that our strategic interest in co-operating with, with Saudi Arabia as it was … was going to be severely diminished and our ability to fight terrorism, secure peace in the Middle East, we wouldn't be able to do it.

Now, in the end, I mean I've got to give advice as to where our national interest lies. Now I think that's a totally different thing than for example, what we have also been pushing, which is the extractive industries at issue in Africa, that is actually putting an end to a lot of corruption.

John Sopel: But you get then the Paris based organisation, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, who are the watchdogs in these sort of things, talking about this might have been a breach of the anti-bribery convention, that Britain, supposedly leading this.

Tony Blair: Yeah. I don't think the … it wasn't quite like that. Look, in the end you've got to have a... [interjection]

Jon Sopel: I mean there was a serious point they made. They said it was, it could have been in breach of the anti-bribery convention.

Tony Blair: Well I don't accept that for a moment, but I also would say to you that if you look at these types of issues, not just from the perspective of Britain, but any country. Where you're in a situation where you genuinely believe your own country's interests, I mean leave aside incidentally, there are tens of thousands of jobs we could have lost, where our country's interests are …erm…, you know, fundamentally engaged and where there is no, this was all to do with historical events in the past.

Jon Sopel: [interjection]... the South African President, Thabo Mbeki said here in Davos, that he was rather puzzled by it all, what happened.

Tony Blair: Yeah, well I mean, you can get the explanation because I've just given it and that is the explanation.

Jon Sopel: Okay. Well let's talk about one police investigation that I don't think you will be able to stop, the cash for peerages enquiry. I know you won't talk about the detailed investigation, but what did it feel like to be the first Prime Minister to be questioned as part of a criminal enquiry?

Tony Blair: It's not just that I won't talk about the investigation. I just won't talk about it full stop, cos anyway, in the weeks to come it will finish as an enquiry and why don't we just wait for that time?

Jon Sopel: We have spoken of bits and pieces about it. I mean you said about Ruth Turner, after she was arrested, that Ruth's a person of the highest integrity, Downing Street have denied various bits of the story. I mean surely, there are some questions about all this that you... [overlapping]

Tony Blair: Yeah but you know, in, in the end with this, look, as you know and I know, this whole – there will be lots of stuff that will ricochet around the media. The thing is to let the thing take its course and then wait for the outcome.

Jon Sopel: Okay, so what about – who's right then, and I'm sure you can answer this question between your Attorney General and the Lord Chancellor over who will take a decision, whether a prosecution takes place?

Tony Blair: These are, these are all matters for the proper authorities and, and I'm not going to comment on it. I'm just not going to comment on it. I can't comment on it!

John Sopel: Well what does it look like then to have two of your closest colleagues and Minister, out there arguing and debating it?

Tony Blair: [interjection] Well I've – so you say, but I think...

Jon Sopel: Do you want the quotes?

Tony Blair: I think we should just let the thing take its course, cos what can I say? And in any event we'll know the answer to all these questions when you...

Jon Sopel: Well, do you think it is the ultimately – if a prosecution is to come, it is the decision of the Attorney General, or it is a... [interjection]

Tony Blair: … it should be done according to what the proper legal procedures are…

Jon Sopel: ...or the Crown Prosecution Service. There you are, it's just a straightforward question.

Tony Blair: Yeah but it…

John Soplel: The Attorney General says it's his job. Charlie Falconer says it actually should be the Crown Prosecution Service.

Tony Blair: No I, I don't – I think what you're doing is aligning two quite separate things which is the role of the Attorney and the role of the Crown Prosecution Service, but I'm not gonna say any more. Let the thing run its course and then we'll see.

Jon Sopel: Do you think though that it's not...

Tony Blair: [laughs]

Jon Sopel: ...okay, it's not great for your authority… [interjection]

Tony Blair: [laughs] Let's try – not great for my authority.

Jon Sopel: This is a serious political point.

Tony Blair: Yeah.

Jon Sopel: And you've got Ministers arguing. I mean we can talk about, I don't know, let's talk about Iraq. Peter Hain coming out, you've stood absolutely shoulder to shoulder with George W. Bush over the policy in Iraq and you get Peter Hain coming out saying the problem for us as a government, is actually to maintain a working relationship with what is the most right wing American administration, if not ever, then in living memory.

Tony Blair: [laughs] Well, I mean look. He's, you know, he's, he's going to … erm…, he's, he's going to be stating his views isn't he?

John Sopel: What does that mean?

Tony Blair: Well what it means is, I don't think it's very surprising that people in the Labour Party aren't Neo-Cons.

Jon Sopel: What about collective responsibility?

Tony Blair: But that's not – the collective responsibility is in relation to the conduct …erm…, of the war and the – ensuring that we, we make sure that we prosecute successfully what we've begun in Iraq and I think you'll find Peter absolutely on the line. I don't think it's a great surprise, especially with, you know, other things in the offing...